I had a blast chatting with Kourtney Roy, the director of the new film, Kryptic. Like the movie, our conversation veered between the serious and the humorous – from important topics like casting, location scouting, film influences, and the writing process all the way to perhaps the most important question of all: does Kryptic truly have the adequate amount of cum? Keep reading to find out Roy’s final say on the topic.
Bio
Kourtney Roy is an award-winning artist, photographer, and now first-time feature filmmaker. She was born in Northern Ontario, but moved to Vancouver to study photography, and then to Paris, where she currently resides. Her work is frequently influenced by seemingly banal locations and finding the hidden qualities underneath these surfaces. Her first feature-film, Kryptic, had its premiere at the South by Southwest (SXSW) Festival and is currently slotted to play at the 2024 Calgary Underground Film Festival (CUFF).
A Conversation with Kourtney Roy: Director of KRYPTIC
Tickets are still available to watch Kryptic at CUFF 2024
On Describing Kryptic and Moving from Photography to Film
Adam Manery
I’m struggling to provide a succinct summary of Kryptic. When you’re asked to describe the film, what is your response? How do you answer that question?
Kourtney Roy
You’re absolutely right. If I tried to sum it up, it might get really boring and sort of dumb, quite frankly. It wouldn’t do it justice because it’s pretty convoluted. So when people ask me that, it’s usually people who haven’t seen it, and I respond with questions more than anything.
I go, “Well… first question. Do you like monsters that masturbate?”
“Yeah”.
“Do you like mucus?”
“Yeah”.
“And do you like awkward sex scenes?”
“Hell yeah”.
So then I let them know that this film is for them. That’s a really good way to get people to latch onto the film.
AM
And what if they answer no?
KR
You know what, if you don’t like monsters, mucus, or awkward sex, then yeah, maybe you shouldn’t see it. It’s not for everybody, and that’s totally fine.
On a small indie film, you’re working with really passionate people, and it’s so exciting. People aren’t doing it to get rich; they’re doing it because they love it and want to do it.
AM
Hey, that sounds like a good strategy. Obviously, this is your first feature film, but you’ve had great success as a photographer. What was the transition like moving from photography into film? There’s some visual overlap, but it’s an entirely different form at the end of the day.
KR
Yeah, the similarities are mostly superficial. It was a big learning curve going from photography to film. It was an enjoyable learning curve, though. In photography, you’re very solo; you’re very lonely. You do the DP work, you’re production design, you’re art department, you’re catering. You do it all – and you’re directing as well. So you have this habit of doing everything yourself. You’re scouting by yourself; you’re doing everything, really. That was one of the biggest shifts from photography to film. And the film wasn’t giant – we were relatively small, between 50 to 70 people per day.
So, a lot of it is about delegating tasks. You have your heads of departments coming to you, and you’re showing the mood boards, you’re talking about what you want, you’re basically “choosing.” I found that directing is more about saying yes or no, choosing what you want, and explaining these choices. And I like that. People asked if I found it hard not to touch the camera, but well… I don’t know how to use a film camera; it’s not the same at all. Moving a film camera is different from moving a still camera. You have to practice it like a dance. Maybe one day, with enough practice, I will be good at it. Of course, there were some aspects, like the lighting, that I understood more of. I actually liked working with the DP and not touching anything.
I could have him show me the setup of the screen, and I could say “yes” or “no.” I could tell him that we’ll go in a certain direction, and then I could talk with him before he went back to his team. He’d set something up and show me, and I’d be able to say, “Yeah, that’s perfect .” When you’re working with competent people, it’s nice.
I’m lucky my producers are very smart and very helpful. They found the team for me because I’m coming from photo and didn’t have any contacts in the cinema world. On a small indie film, you’re working with really passionate people, and it’s so exciting. People aren’t doing it to get rich; they’re doing it because they love it and want to do it. You give them a mood board or a goal, and they do 150% over what you thought they would do, so it’s pretty neat.
On the Origins of the Film and Premiering at SXSW
AM
It’s amazing when you’re working with a team like that. You also had a great teammate in Paul Bromley. You two tossed some ideas around, and he ultimately wrote the script. How did that come to be?
KR
A happy, accidental chain of events brought this to fruition. Paul and I are friends, and we’ve known each other for a long time. We lost contact, not for any bad reason, but just because he lives in London and I live in Paris. After not seeing each other for a couple of years, I was coming to London, so I called him, and we hung out for a couple of days. I stayed with him and his partner. We got really drunk one night, like six in the morning, six bottles of wine drunk. And he says, “I’m going to write you a script.” I didn’t think too much of it and assumed he was thinking of a short film, but he said, “No, not a short film. A feature”. I naively say sure, but I have no idea what any of this entails at all. I’m a hard worker and don’t mind pummelling through it, so it’s probably fine. I had no idea what I was getting into.
It’s fascinating, this idea of not recognizing yourself but also recognizing that if you could be anyone else, then who could you be? You’re no longer who you thought you were. You search for yourself, and then you can become anything you want.
So, we bounce around ideas. I like monsters. I want weird sex scenes. I want supernatural elements. He has ideas of doppelgangers, road movies, and a female lead. He was much more intelligent. I’m just like… “Monsters,” and he is diving into a female lead performance.
Paul had read this article about a woman in Iceland who had gone missing on this bus tour and sent it to me. I’m not sure if she was Icelandic, but she was in Iceland on this bus tour and at one point during the day, she went to the bathroom and changed her appearance – put on a jacket or changed her stuff. When she came out, somehow, the team said someone was missing, and the whole group searched for this missing woman. Then you realize she went on a search for six hours for herself.
That was the springboard for Paul. It’s fascinating, this idea of not recognizing yourself but also recognizing that if you could be anyone else, then who could you be? You’re no longer who you thought you were. You search for yourself, and then you can become anything you want. There’s something liberating and exciting about it.
AM
You can definitely see the parallels in the film. As a first-time director, I’d say things have worked out quite well. Not many new directors can say they had their film premiere at South by Southwest. What was that experience like?
KR
I went down for a week, and it was super cool. Amber, the Canadian producer, told us we had gotten in a little bit before they unveiled it, and we were incredibly excited. It was a wild ride. I arrived a few days before the first screening, so I had time to chill out, see some stuff, and check out the festival. I mean, it’s a huge festival. It’s massive and very overwhelming. There’s so much. There’s music, there’s film, there’s conferences and even more. I stuck to the cinema stuff myself.
We got to check out the theatre, and it was amazing – so beautiful; we had a full house, which was exciting as well, and the audience was pretty responsive. They’re definitely not a genre festival crowd now that I’ve seen the difference. There are no people screaming or a ton of laughter or jeering at the film. They laughed at certain parts, and I was glad they laughed. I think my film is funny. It’s a weird film, but it should be seen as something that’s both dark and funny. My French friend, who came to a screening, commented on the climax scene in the garage with all the mucus coming out of our character’s mouth and it keeps going and going. My friend said she just started laughing, but it was a nervous laugh. It wasn’t actually funny, but she just couldn’t believe it.
On Working with Chloe Pirrie and Finding the “Weird” in the Banal
AM
That’s an appropriate response! Obviously, in that scene, and in the entire film, so much weight is placed on the lead, played by Chloe Pirrie. Her eyes alone tell us so much. What was it like working with her?
KR
She’s great. Her eyes are why we chose her. Not the only reason, of course, but there’s not a lot of dialogue in the film, and it’s a woman who is lost and confused, so we needed someone who could be expressive. I was watching the casting tapes with Paul, and when I saw her, I was like, “Did you guys make a mistake, and did she get sent the wrong casting? How did you get this amazing, talented actor reading for my little script?” It was an immediate yes. She stood out 100% over all the other actors, who were also extremely talented.
Like I said, it was Chloe’s eyes. We needed somebody who was awkward and had a kind of strangeness. Chloe is beautiful, but she’s also atypical looking. And this character is a bit of a wallflower. She doesn’t have a lot of friends. And if you’re like that, you’re not the prom queen. She’s so beautiful, but she also has something different about her. Chloe did a great job and was in every scene, so she did a lot of work. She had to carry it.
AM
You mentioned how Paul wanted this “doppelganger” idea in the film, which manifests in Chloe weaving between these characters or versions of herself, literally or figuratively. How did you approach directing this when there is so much nuance to portray from scene to scene?
KR
When I cast her, I just trusted her, which came from my small experience in the world and from talking to actor friends. When you cast somebody, you need to trust them, right? Once you’ve made your choice, you’ve done your work, and now they have to do their work. I assume that she made a lot of choices about certain things in the film, but we never really talked about it. She keeps in her own little secret world. I’ve been reading about directing actors and learning how to speak to them in certain contexts. I mean, she never told me to get out of her way, and we’re still friends!
I had already been doing script analysis and my own preparation. I made sure to develop certain things about what was going on in the film and thought of scenarios or explanations for a number of things. Sometimes, I had several explanations, where one was the most probable, but I had something like three other explanations, too, so we could change it on the day of the shoot if I wanted to.
I think she had worked out what she thought. If she had any questions, which she didn’t often, we would discuss them. But I just let her be. When I was watching her, there was nothing that I found jarring in her performance. So whatever choice she’s made, it’s in accordance with whatever I’m wanting or looking for.
I love looking at banal things like dive bars and seeing how there can be strange and marvelous and unsettling and weird shit. So that’s where the marvelous and the banal intertwine and marry each other, and you can get these strange things.
AM
There is that kind of free-flowing nature to the film. There are also clear forays into the surreal. How did you find the balance of diving into surrealism while also remaining grounded?
KR
I didn’t really approach it as striking a balance. My photography doesn’t have a lot of what I have in this film, so it is a new territory. I don’t have monsters in my photography. I don’t have mucus. But, you know, it’s good to do different things, but the uncanny has always fascinated me. The familiar things can also be very strange. I’m giving the most basic explanation of a profound idea by Freud, but I love looking at banal things like dive bars and seeing how there can be strange and marvelous and unsettling and weird shit. So that’s where the marvelous and the banal intertwine and marry each other, and you can get these strange things. That’s how I view my work in general. It’s a big theme of my work, which I applied quite extensively to the film—these banal places.
I don’t know if you’ve been to Hope, BC, which I loved. It’s my favorite town in Canada. I love dive bars. I love old motels. I love gas stations. I love all this shit and parking lots that are empty, whatever. Just using that space. And then, because you never even pay attention in these boring places, you drive by them; you can make such weird things, right?
I was trying to apply that a lot to Kryptic. I’m a very location-conscious person. I’m pretty good at finding locations, which is present in my photography, too. I don’t need to build sets. I think the world has everything I need. You just have to go and find it, you know?
On the Horrors of Domestic Living and Film Influences
AM
That all feeds into this notion of finding the darker side of the seemingly normal. In the film’s third act, we have a little glimpse into our character’s potential domestic life – you literally have a white picket fence. But those scenes in that house were the creepiest and scariest scenes of the film to me. You’re trapped in this situation. What contributed to you moving away from the woods, the bars, and the motels and instead showing this domestic life?
KR
I find that type of setting, lifestyle, or situation quite horrifying and terrifying. For me, this forest and this monster stuff are scary, but the scariest thing in the world is domestic hell. Just banal, sheer… boredom of sitting there and being fucking married, you know? And so I had a lot of fun with that. We deliberately wanted to make Morgan’s place look deceptively safe, but then you quickly realize it’s a hellhole.
Lots of people ask me about that third act, which I really enjoyed. It’s my favorite act of the film, for sure. And some of the people watching, they ask, “Is this autobiographical”? But none of it is autobiographical. Paul and I laughed while writing this. Lines like “bum bum” and “pee pee.” Paul and I talking about it, going through dialogue, and then Paul going back and writing .
We had a great time thinking about how weird and creepy we could make this. We would be writing these awkward sex scenes, and they’re pretty awkward. When I read what Paul had written, I was like, “Paul, I just feel so gross reading this,” and then we started laughing. It’s so awful—keep going.
AM
Without diving too much into spoiler territory, I think it’s easy, although perhaps reductionist, to point out some potential influences, like Cronenberg and Lynch. Did you pull inspiration from directors like those, or where did your inspiration come from?
I love that green and wanted it to be a supernatural green in the film. That’s my colour for weird shit.
KR
There are a few films that I really love. I don’t know if you’d find the direct link, but it’s the weirdness in their atmosphere. There are some visuals, like from Don’t Look Now, the little red hoodie, and the small person at the end as well wearing that red jacket. The story has no real parallels, but I love that film. I find it very haunting, strange, beautiful, poignant, and touching. I’ve seen it many times. I love the visual of the red, the red hoodie, or the red jacket. Then, there is the forest with these deep greens and cyans.
In terms of atmosphere or the feeling I got from that film, I tried to have a similar feeling in my film. My film’s a bit more funny and probably a bit more wacky. Of course, Nicholas Roeg’s film is still infinitely more powerful than mine.
I really like Donnie Darko and what’s going on in the end. He’s back in his room, and the plane’s jet engine comes crashing through. There are so many things that you could make up about how this happened. I love that.
It’s funny – Donnie Darko – he talks about Smurfette and Smurf having dicks. He says such funny stuff all the time. It’s deeply poetic, tragic, and hilarious. You know, I love all these things in a film.
One last reference is Vertigo, where he wants to turn Judy into Madeline, right? Towards the end, when he finds Judy, he’s dressing her and slowly transforming her. She’s a woman who doesn’t even exist, right? Paul and I really, really love that film. You see some parallels between Morgan and their domestic relationship. There’s also a lot of green symbolism as well. That green is used in Judy’s transformation into Madeline in the hotel room, and there’s this green light from the hotel coming through. Obviously, my film has nothing to do with Vertigo, but I love that green and wanted it to be a supernatural green in the film. That’s my colour for weird shit.
TheUltimate Debate: Not Enough Cum, Too Much Cum, or an Adequate Amount of Cum?
AM
Before I let you go, there’s been a very hot debate on the internet concerning Kryptic, particularly on Letterboxd. There are three distinct opinions, and I want your final say. So… is there not enough cum, too much cum, or an adequate amount of cum in the movie?
KR
I saw those three, too. I can’t make anybody happy! The world is so cruel, you know, just everybody’s petty. The first one, I thought, was a beautiful review. I put it all over my social media, and XYZ posted it, too, because they thought it was funny. The “adequate amount” is sort of ambivalent. I’d rather “too much” or “too little.”
You know, everybody’s laughing about the cum, and sometimes I’m like, everybody, it’s ectoplasm, it’s mucus. But I do enjoy the cum debate. I think it either piques people’s interest, and they want to go see it, or they’re like, no. And that’s fine as well. That’s good. You should know your limits.
AM
So we’ll leave the cum up in the air. It’s up to you to decide.
KR
Let’s get a dialogue going and get people giving more opinions about the mucus.
AM
About the mucus, not the cum.
KR
Right!
AM
Hopefully, we will have a packed theater at CUFF for Kryptic. When people leave the theatre after watching the film, what do you want to be going through their minds?
KR
I hope they go, I don’t know what the fuck just happened, but that was fucking fun, you know? That was a wild ride. What the hell just happened? I hope they’re entertained the whole way through. There’s room for confusion and doubt about what’s going on. It’s a movie – you’re making it deliberately for an audience. It’s not your own little personal thing that you make for yourself. You have a responsibility, so I hope they enjoy it. I hope they have a good time.
Tickets are still available to watch Kryptic at CUFF 2024
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